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RE: [Mix] ISIAME2016/Stanislaw

From: "Stanislaw Dubiel" <Stanislaw.Dubiel AT fis.agh.edu.pl>
To: <raquel AT ap22ude.co.za>,<berryfjz AT bham.ac.uk>, <kuzmann AT caesar.elte.hu>, <edson AT cce.ufes.br>, <haraldur.p.gunnlaugsson AT cern.ch>, <sunhui AT dicp.ac.cn>, <taozhang AT dicp.ac.cn>, <wangjh AT dicp.ac.cn>, <lazar.karoly AT energia.mta.hu>, <aderbal47 AT gmail.com>, <stevensjohng AT gmail.com>, <robi AT ifd.uni.wroc.pl>, <reissner AT ifp.tuwien.ac.at>, <vpopov AT imp.uran.ru>, <Guido.Langouche AT kuleuven.be>, <mix AT lists.kfki.hu>, <israel.felner AT mail.huji.ac.il>, <gdzhbj AT mail.iggcas.ac.cn>, <mosslab.kz AT mail.ru>, <yoshida AT ms.sist.ac.jp>, <Frans.Waanders AT nwu.ac.za>, <lttt AT physics.by>, <kbr AT saao.ac.za>, <Lodya.Lodya AT sasol.com>, <S.D.Forder AT shu.ac.uk>, <kubuki AT tmu.ac.jp>, <magnet AT uestc.edu.cn>, <amulaba AT uj.ac.za>, <klingel AT uni-mainz.de>, <ksenofon AT uni-mainz.de>, <massimo.carbucicchio AT unipr.it>, <jean-marc.greneche AT univ-lemans.fr>, <jumas AT univ-montp2.fr>, <lippens AT univ-montp2.fr>, <jakub.navarik AT upol.cz>, <libor.machala AT upol.cz>, <nagy.denes AT wigner.mta.hu>, <Deena.Naidoo AT wits.ac.za>, <Gerrard.Peter AT wits.ac.za>, <Hilary.Masenda AT wits.ac.za>
Subject: RE: [Mix] ISIAME2016/Stanislaw
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:20:59 +0200
Authentication-results: smtp1.kfki.hu (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fis.agh.edu.pl

Dear ISIAME Board Members,

As my name was mentioned in the e-mail of Ms. Richardson to you, and you
may conclude that June 15 was really the first nd only date of my
contact with Frans in the matter of ISIAME2016, I am attaching a list of
all e-mails I had exchanged with Frans. I started this kind of actions
after Frans's absence at ICAME 2015 (Hamburg) and a lack of any
information on the ISIAME 2016 available.

Kind regards to all of you,

SM Dubiel

>>> "Raquel Richardson" 24.06.16 12:03 >>>
ISIAME Board Members

There seems to be a lot of emails, blame and personal issues being
thrown around. As a third party not prevalent to all the information, I
stand to be corrected about ISIAME Cape Town 2016, but this is how the
information is coming across.

From my initial discussions with Frans, it was mentioned that at the
last ISIAME a vote was taken and majority voted South Africa with the
provision of majority attending. On this understanding, Frans set up
ISIAME in Cape Town at the Lagoon Beach. Due to economic downturn and
currently the reduction of number of attendants at most conferences /
events, he confirmed the numbers at 100 x delegates, which should have
been pretty easy to obtain.

The concern is that not many people have registered or have shown an
interest in attending. The Lagoon Beach hotel, agreed to cancel the
booking without any cancellation fees if done so by mid-June. If Frans
had not done so, there would have been cancellation fees into the
hundreds of thousands of Rands… which I assume none of you would have
been prepared to account for! Granted Krish has given an alternative
venue, but there are numerous things to consider when hosting a
conference, i.e. Affordable accommodation in the area? Getting to and
from the venue? Quality of venue, suppliers, safety, etc. If South
Africa is still a consideration, it is possible to re-evaluate the
entire conference and see if its viable.

From my limited understanding, numbers are not the only issue here. If
you do not have quality and the correct quantity of abstracts and
presentations, then your conference will not carry any value. Only a
limited number have been received. As members of the ISIAME board,
where is your cut-off point for the conference?

As for you Mr Stanislaw Dubiel, you mention below the lack of response
to your registration, however you only registered on the 15th June at
18h57pm and Frans sent the email out to cancel the conferenceI’ve dealt with
several conferences before and in my experience have not
seen this type of disjointed animosity. I would have assumed as the
ISIAME board members you would all come together to try come up with a
resolution that would work for all.

I am here to assist anyway possible with any travel / conference side of
ISIAME.

Kind regards
Raquel Richardson
Ap22ude (Pty) Ltd
Cell: +27 82 509 6485
Tel: +27 11 475 2750
Fax: 086 593 7975
Web: www.ap22ude.co.za

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From: Stanislaw Dubiel
[mailto:Stanislaw.Dubiel AT fis.agh.edu.pl]

Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2016 9:28 PM
To:
berryfjz AT bham.ac.uk;

kuzmann AT caesar.elte.hu;

edson AT cce.ufes.br;
haraldur.p.gunnlaugsson AT cern.ch;

sunhui AT dicp.ac.cn;

taozhang AT dicp.ac.cn;
wangjh AT dicp.ac.cn;

lazar.karoly AT energia.mta.hu;

aderbal47 AT gmail.com;
stevensjohng AT gmail.com;

robi AT ifd.uni.wroc.pl;

reissner AT ifp.tuwien.ac.at;
vpopov AT imp.uran.ru;

Guido.Langouche AT kuleuven.be;

mix AT lists.kfki.hu;
israel.felner AT mail.huji.ac.il;

gdzhbj AT mail.iggcas.ac.cn;
mosslab.kz AT mail.ru;

yoshida AT ms.sist.ac.jp;

Frans.Waanders AT nwu.ac.za;
lttt AT physics.by;

kbr AT saao.ac.za;

Lodya.Lodya AT sasol.com;
S.D.Forder AT shu.ac.uk;

kubuki AT tmu.ac.jp;

magnet AT uestc.edu.cn;
amulaba AT uj.ac.za;

klingel AT uni-mainz.de;

ksenofon AT uni-mainz.de;
massimo.carbucicchio AT unipr.it;

jean-marc.greneche AT univ-lemans.fr;
jumas AT univ-montp2.fr;

lippens AT univ-montp2.fr;

jakub.navarik AT upol.cz;
libor.machala AT upol.cz;

nagy.denes AT wigner.mta.hu;
Deena.Naidoo AT wits.ac.za;

Gerrard.Peter AT wits.ac.za;
Hilary.Masenda AT wits.ac.za
Cc:
raquel AT ap22ude.co.za
Subject: ISIAME2016/Stanislaw

Hello everyone,

I do not know how Frans counts the paid-up attendees. In my case, I
wanted to pay the fee several days ago (the deadline for the reduced fee
is 1-st July) but no response received from Frans on the question on the
bank account to which the money should be transferred.
I can imagine that this was not an exception. Furthermore, many people
have funds just for one foreign conference, so they have to make their
decision on the choice of the conference well in advance. Unfortunately,
the organisation of the ISIAME 2016 was very bad i.e. Despite Frans had
4 years to prepare the conference it was not sure until recently whether
or not the conference will take place at all. So I do not wonder that
the interest in the ISIAME 2016 was so low. Therefore, Frans is the only
one who takes the responsibility for the failure. Now, instead of trying
to co-operate with some people who want to solve the problem e. g.
Krish, he buries his head into sand!
It seems that he is unable to organise the ISIAME, so I suggest that we
ask people from the Czech Republic (Olomouc University) to organise this
conference next year (The wanted to organizes this conference this year,
but the decision of the ISIAME Committee made in Dalian - 2012 - was
(unfortunately) in favour of Frans).

Greetings Stanislaw Dubiel

Stanislaw M. Dubiel, MSc, PhD, DSc, FInstPhys
Professor of Physics
Faculty of Physics & Applied ComputerPoland
tel: +48 12 617 2973
fax: + 48 12 634 0010
e-mail:
Stanislaw.Dubiel AT orion.fis.agh.edu.pl

>>> "Frans Waanders" 23.06.16 20:23 >>>
Thanks for your effort Krish

The venue is not the problem. Raquel even asked the price for 40 people
and we had only 11 paid-up attendees at the time I had to decide.

We have far to little abstracts and with less than 30 abstracts I still
do not see the use of carrying on- I extended the deadline for abstracts
with 1 month with hardly any additional ones submitted. Please do not
blame me for this as I sent out various notes without response

Krish I think nobody will want to travel every day to Ithemba labs
making attendance even smaller.

I am currently in Namibia at a mine with limited contact until 1 July

I only had limited support from all and rather now people angry with me
than a hopeless undersupported symposium

Frans

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Krish Bharuth-Ram

Date: 06/20/2016 18:43 (GMT+01:00)

To: Frans Waanders ,
raquel AT ap22ude.co.za,

berryfjz AT bham.ac.uk,
kuzmann AT caesar.elte.hu,

edson AT cce.ufes.br,
haraldur.p.gunnlaugsson AT cern.ch,

sunhui AT dicp.ac.cn,

taozhang AT dicp.ac.cn,
wangjh AT dicp.ac.cn,

lazar.karoly AT energia.mta.hu,
Stanislaw.Dubiel AT fis.agh.edu.pl,

aderbal47 AT gmail.com,
stevensjohng AT gmail.com,

robi AT ifd.uni.wroc.pl,
Michael Reissner ,
vpopov AT imp.uran.ru,
Guido Langouche ,
mix AT lists.kfki.hu,
israel.felner AT mail.huji.ac.il,

gdzhbj AT mail.iggcas.ac.cn,
mosslab.kz AT mail.ru,

yoshida AT ms.sist.ac.jp,

lttt AT physics.by,
kbr AT saao.ac.za,

Lodya.Lodya AT sasol.com,

S.D.Forder AT shu.ac.uk,
kubuki AT tmu.ac.jp,

magnet AT uestc.edu.cn,

amulaba AT uj.ac.za,
klingel AT uni-mainz.de,

ksenofon AT uni-mainz.de,
massimo.carbucicchio AT unipr.it,

jean-marc.greneche AT univ-lemans.fr,
jumas AT univ-montp2.fr,

lippens AT univ-montp2.fr,

jakub.navarik AT upol.cz,
libor.machala AT upol.cz,

nagy.denes AT wigner.mta.hu,
Deena.Naidoo AT wits.ac.za,

Gerrard.Peter AT wits.ac.za,
Hilary.Masenda AT wits.ac.za

Subject: Re: AW: ISIAME2016

>>> "Krish Bharuth-Ram" 2016-06-20T19:43:22.080483 >>>
Dear Frans
Following the email from Guido and Michael perhaps you may wish to
re-consider the decision to cancel the conference.
I had long ago suggested iThemba LABS as a venue, where we could have
got the auditorium (able to seat 200) at no cost together with good
space for poster sessions, as well a conference secretariat.

I could call the Director tomorrow and discuss availability, etc.

Please let me know asap.

Kind regards
Krish.

On 2016/06/20 06:52 PM, Michael Reissner wrote:

Dear Frans,

I am sorry, but I cannot confirm that I understand your decision to
cancel the symposion. A cancellation 1 year in advance might be ok, but
not 10 weeks before the start. For you the cancellation might be the
easiest way, but you forget that people have paid a lot of money in
advance, which they will not get back. E.g. I have paid the flight for
me and my wife, who I wanted to take with me, some months ago. I cannot
cancel this flight. I also booked the hotel for us. Hopefully we can
cancel this. As this would have been my first time in South Africa, I
have booked a pre-conference tour for us, which I also cannot cancel
without loosing a lot of money. I am sure that I am not the only one who
has such problems.

I do not know what you have expected. In my opinion I have expected in
best case 60 participants. What about the South African Mössbauer
community? Are they not involved or interested in this conference?

In principle such small conferences are much easier and cheaper than a
conference with 200 people. A small lecture hall at the university or
even a seminar room at the institute is enough. Coffee can be prepared
and served by students or secretary. This all is usually for nothing. By
the way ISIAME at Budapest was organized very well in that way. I never
understood, why organization of conference are nowadays always given to
some agencies and are hold in hotels, where you have to pay a lot for
the inremind you that the deadline even for the early bird registration is
July 1st. You had a long list of invited talks. I suppose that everyone
has confirmed to come. A cancellation of 2 is not large number.

I am not astonished that you could not find sponsors for this small
meeting. I only wonder that you seem to have calculated with sponsorship
money. Such money should never be part of the budget calculation. If it
comes, it should be used to support people to come to the conference.

In 2009 I have organized ICAME. We expected , due to preregistration 400
participants. Due to the economical crisis 2008, all sponsors and a lot
of colleagues cancelled their participation. At the end we had ca. 250
people. Nevertheless we could run the conference, because with some
reductions and because in my budget I have only assumed 150 full paying
participants. More serious was ICAME 2011 in Japan, because after
Fukushima nobody wanted to come. For the organizers it was very serious,
but they never thought on cancellation of the conference.

It is also a very bad sign for future conferences. If one cannot trust,
that the organizer will do everything that the conference can take
place, many will be very cautious to plan a partizipation, even when
invited.

I understand that you are disappointed about “no interest”. But there
are some people who were interested, who are now alienated. I would have
expected that you cancel your contract and look on really cheap
solution, eg. at the university, which can be covered by the
registration fee.

Only to mention, there was a few weeks ago msms conference with only 30
participants. But people say it was very good program and interesting
discussions.

I hope this is not the end of the series of ISIAME conferences.

Best regards

Michael

Asoc.Prof.Dr.Michael Reissner
TU Wien
Institute of Solid State Physics
Wiedner Hauptstrasse 8-10
1040 Wien
AUSTRIA

Phon: +43 1 58801 13772
FAX: +43 1 58801 9 13772
Email:
reissner AT tuwien.ac.at

Von: Frans Waanders
[mailto:Frans.Waanders AT nwu.ac.za]

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2016 20:58
An:
raquel AT ap22ude.co.za;

berryfjz AT bham.ac.uk;

kuzmann AT caesar.elte.hu;
edson AT cce.ufes.br;

haraldur.p.gunnlaugsson AT cern.ch;

sunhui AT dicp.ac.cn;
taozhang AT dicp.ac.cn;

wangjh AT dicp.ac.cn;

lazar.karoly AT energia.mta.hu;
Stanislaw.Dubiel AT fis.agh.edu.pl;

aderbal47 AT gmail.com;
stevensjohng AT gmail.com;

haflidi AT hi.is;

robi AT ifd.uni.wroc.pl;
reissner AT ifp.tuwien.ac.at;

vpopov AT imp.uran.ru;

mix AT lists.kfki.hu;
israel.felner AT mail.huji.ac.il;

gdzhbj AT mail.iggcas.ac.cn;
mosslab.kz AT mail.ru;

yoshida AT ms.sist.ac.jp;

lttt AT physics.by;
kbr AT saao.ac.za;

Lodya.Lodya AT sasol.com;

S.D.Forder AT shu.ac.uk;
kubuki AT tmu.ac.jp;

magnet AT uestc.edu.cn;

amulaba AT uj.ac.za;
klingel AT uni-mainz.de;

ksenofon AT uni-mainz.de;
massimo.carbucicchio AT unipr.it;

jean-marc.greneche AT univ-lemans.fr;
jumas AT univ-montp2.fr;

lippens AT univ-montp2.fr;

jakub.navarik AT upol.cz;
libor.machala AT upol.cz;

nagy.denes AT wigner.mta.hu;
Deena.Naidoo AT wits.ac.za;

Gerrard.Peter AT wits.ac.za;
Hilary.Masenda AT wits.ac.za
Betreff: ISIAME2016

Dear all

It is with regret that I have to cancel the upcoming ISIAME2016
symposium that was to be held in the Lagoon beach Hotel Cape Town

The main reason to me is the lack of interest;

We have at the deadline for abstracts (today) only received 27 abstracts
of which 7 are to be presented as posters. I have extended the deadline
for abstracts with a month and only a few extra abstracts were
submitted, mainly in the last 2 days. Some of the Invited speakers have
not yet sent any abstract and others have sent more than one but due to
financial constraints only one person can come and 2 Invited speakers
have canceled their contributions due to legitimate reasons. I used the
mix email as well as some 180 names I had on the lists of persons that
attended ISIAME in the past of which only a handful responded and I am
trying to answers each person that has sent an email regarding
ISIAME2016

At this stage we oSome people suggested that the conference venue is very
expensive but
the request was made in China that we should hold it in Cape Town and
both Raquel and myself looked for the cheapest option and clearly from
the registration fee it is not that expensive. For the Pittsburgh Coal
Conference (to be held in August 2016 in Cape Town) the registration fee
is $800 and we have over 200 participants already from all over the
world. We wanted more than 300 for this conference but clearly the
economic atmosphere must play a role.

Sponsorship:
A successfull conference or symposium is based on sound sponsorship. I
have obtained sponsorship from my own university (euro800) and from
Sasol the same amount and I used some euro3000 from my own research
funding and did not receive any sponsorship from overseas or Moessbauer
industrial persons. I paid the initial deposit with this money and
today was the deadline of paying the next deposit or we will incur
fines. We spoke with the people from the venue and they were prepared to
not charge us a fine for cancellation and even suggested we reduce the
amount of delegates to 40 without additional costs and cheaper rates -
thanks to all the efforts by Raquel.

I had many discussions with Raquel who assisted me on the whole
organization of the symposium and it is her experience and my believe
that with 11 registered delegates to date we will not have even have 40
people in the next month or so to have the symposium going further - let
alone in the next day!

I am thus very sorry for people who have already payed or booked flights
but the registration fees will be paid back as soon as possible

I am very sad to have made this announcement but I am not prepared or
able to carry any extra costs and I trust that everybody will understand
my reasoning and final decission

Frans

Prof Frans Waanders Pr Ing. Pr Sci. Nat.
Professor en Direkteur
Skool vir Chemiese en Mineraalingenieurswese
NWU
Tel: (018) 299 1994
Faks: (018) 299 1535
www.nwu.ac.za

Vrywaring:
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Prof Frans Waanders Pr Eng. Pr Sci. Nat
Professor and Director
School of Chemical and Minerals Engineering
NWU
Tel: (018) 299 1994
Fax: (018) 299 1535
www.nwu.ac.za

Disclaimer: http://www.nwu.ac.za/it/gov-man/disclaimer.html

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Attachment: My correspondence with Frans.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

[Mix] ISIAME2016/Stanislaw, Stanislaw Dubiel, 06/20/2016
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
- [Mix] ISIAME2016/Stanislaw, Stanislaw Dubiel, 06/23/2016
- Re: [Mix] ISIAME2016/Stanislaw, Frans Waanders, 06/24/2016
- RE: [Mix] ISIAME2016/Stanislaw, Stanislaw Dubiel, 06/24/2016